Monday, April 15, 2013
Utopia: Achievable?
The Age of Reform was a time of great societal change, partially a result of the Second Great Awakening. Through this movement, not only were people called once again to religious fever, but also many radical religious groups formed. In these "Utopian Communities," perfection was sought after. All parts of men and women's lives were governed by their faith; all parts of life were communal and equal. Two examples of these communities were New Harmony, PA and Oneida, NY. Read about each community. Then, compare and contrast the two settings. Do you think that one community would have been more successful implementing a Utopian Society than the other? How do you think these communities were received by the surrounding population? How do you think they would be received today?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
The similarities between these two Utopias is extremely close because they both focused on how the community as a whole could become better through each person doing their part. Also, they were both headed by either a small group of people or by only one person making it extremely biased as to what the laws should be. A dictatorship you may say. On the contrasting side these are two very far apart as it could be. One is created and inhabited by intellectuals and the other is based on a screwed up type of Christianity. The intellectual tried to create an equal balance between the people without any religion in it. The religious side tried to use the bible in order to contain control. The most weird part about this one was how each man was married to each woman and thought that this is what it would look like in heaven. I think that this was a smart choice because it kept everyone from feeling awkward but at the same time extremely crosses the line in morality. Both of these Utopias, while seeming perfect, had some major flaws but I think the religious one would have survived the other.
ReplyDelete199
DeleteI couldn't imagine living in one of these places. It reminds me of The Giver utopia. Both places are like dictatorship controlling the people for a "perfect community" and they also focus on sharing everything. In New Harmony it was all about rules (house inspections, curfews, fines). Robert Owen even tried to change the whole idea of education. The Oneida society had a big focus on marriage and religion. I thought the belief of complex marriage was interesting. I think it's kind of pathetic how they try to justify the way they live with a Bible verse. It says other people thought of Oneida as immoral and I'm sure people thought the same of New Harmony. If these utopias were here today, I think many people would join in and go, but soon realize that there isn't a perfect place. Even though there were odd ways of living in Oneida, I think it would have lasted longer. Obviously neither weren't perfect because they didn't survive. (165)
ReplyDeleteBoth of these "Utopias” are very similar. Both had a group or a single person that headed the community. Every person in the community had a role. Which I could not live there because I am lazy. The Oneida Community was accused of immorality by people on the outside of the community. So was the New Harmony Community by a man named Karl Marx. Both of the communities faced persecution. Today, I think that both of these communities would be looked down upon by surrounding communities. I can just see these communities being made fun of or anything along those lines. (101)
ReplyDeleteBoth these places manipulated the minds of people. New Harmony might have seemed like a great place with good education, but the parents weren't even able to see what he was teaching. Oneida was accused to be immoral. Oneida tried to justify it by bringing God into it. Just like Manifest Destiny. People their tried to justify stealing property, killing, and their greed by saying it was there "divine right". Back then the communities were highly spoken against, but I am pretty positive that if a group like Oneida came up today many people would accept it and join and the people who would speak against it would be the ones being looked down upon.(116)
ReplyDeleteThese two “Utopian communities”were both made by men who thought they could create a better way of life on earth. They both also were looked down upon and criticized for what they were doing. The New Harmony utopia was based on rational ethics and no religion. This one even tried to change the ways of education which most parents weren’t happy about. The other one Oneida said that everyone was married to everyone which I thought was pretty strange. They even twisted bible verses to show that what they were doing was supposedly right. Of course both these utopias fell apart because no matter how hard we try we can’t form a perfect society on earth. Another reason they fell apart was because they both weren’t based on God. If these two societies were around today I think they would have not been received well, and those that did join them wouldn’t last long in them.(157)
ReplyDeleteFrom my point of view, both "Utopias" were very similar. One man was the head of the entire thing and everyone else fulfilled their roles in the community. Both received heavy criticism from everyone else. New Harmony received laments from parents because they never saw their kids when they left to go to school. The kids themselves didn't receive a normal education but one that focused on character building and practical training. Oneida was even worse in my opinion for it allowed every man to lie with every woman and vice versa. It allowed birth control for unwanted children and was criticized even more than New Harmony. If I had to pick one or the other, I would have to go with New Harmony. It may have had problems but the laws were way better that Oneida's theories. Today, both of these communities would be seen as illegal or just plain crazy by the rest of the world. It just goes to show you that the idea of "Utopias" don't ever work out.(173)
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, just to get this off my chest, Utopias on earth are impossible, and clearly these people did not get the message! I respect the idea of trying to make a society perfect, but it just can't happen on earth. Both of these societies were created with "making a perfect society" but they went about it the wrong way. New Harmony's biggest problem was that it tried to control the citizens too much like Communism, and we have seen that most societies that have this kind of government never work out (i.e. Nazi Germany, U.S.S.R., Babylon, etc...), so I have no clue why Owens would think that a utopian society would include tho kind of government if it has NEVER worked out. Also, New Harmony's education program was based off of life skills instead of actual education to allow them to thrive in society! Although I do agree with Owen's idea for fines against drunkenness and illegitimate children (reasons are personal). But we have laws for those kinds today, are we a perfect society? The answer is no. Now Onieda, the other society, was absolutely a mess. What made this guy think that making everything immoral legal would make a utopia? I may not have much common sense, but I at least would know that is just contradicting itself! The idea of Complex Marriage doesn't even sound remotely right, let alone legal! I can se why that society went down the drain. Now, are these societies similar? Absolutely! Both had one thing in mind: to make a perfect society, and both ended up with the same result: criticism and immoralness. This just all goes to show how only God can create a utopia (i.e. New Jerusalem).(288)
ReplyDeleteI think that Oneida would have done better as a Utopian Society than New Harmony. I say this because the Oneida wanted everyone to be perfect and every child was everyone’s. I think that the surrounding cities would have thought that the city would fail or that the city was a terrible place and should never go near the place. I think today that the two cities would be taken the same way, but I think the population might increase because some people would want a Utopia and join the cities. Both of these cities wanted to have a perfect life and a perfect everything, but we know today that we can’t live a perfect life and have a perfect everything. (121)
ReplyDeleteUsually the Utopians start out good and turn bad. They have good intentions that are taken to the extreme. In New Harmony, Robert Owen introduced the “trade school” for children. This was not such a good idea because it withheld children from their parents and girls only studied home economics even though he stressed gender equality. Meanwhile in New York John Noyes was starting an Association which promoted communism. They followed the idea of “communism” that was set up in Acts. Also he set up an idea of “perfect marriage” where every man was married to every woman. I think that either one of these communities would be received today.
ReplyDelete110 words
DeleteHa. I thought this was kind of funny. A Utopia. A perfect place and society. Ummm, may I say as if? In my opinion, a Utopia totally defeats the purpose and meaning of life. We are imperfect and faulty people so tell me how could we accomplish a perfect society? The answer is simple. We can’t!! Anyway, these societies in particular, I thought were quite similar. Both of the men who created the societies thought they could make a better and safer place on earth, and both of the men were criticized for it. The New Harmony society had no religion and were only based on rational ethics. They had trade school for the children but the parents were unable to know what the kids were learning. In the Oneida society, every man was married to every woman and vise versa. I personally thought this was completely and utterly disgusting. I felt like it was just an excuse to commit adultery several times. I don’t understand how you could see this as something that was okay to do. Both of the societies were obviously not going to survive considering what they were doing was exactly what the Bible says no to do. These are very good examples of why you should never attempt to create or join a Utopia. (219)
ReplyDeleteBoth of these utopias had very interesting beliefs and ways of living. They were similar because both were accused of doing wrong things, and they were both started by one person. New Harmony was focused more on education and rules, and Oneida was focused on religion and it was based on the beliefs of Perfectionism. I don't think either would be very successful. To pick one I would say Oneida would be more successful even though there are strange beliefs like "complex marriage". I think that today and back then people reacted pretty similarly to the idea of a utopia, except for the fact that now there are more examples of utopias that have failed in the past. Everyone wants to live in a place that is perfect and where nothing bad happens, but it isn't possible for that to ever happen on earth.
ReplyDelete144 words
ReplyDeleteThis thing they call a utopia is impossible. People make desperate attempts at lots of thing. I’d say a utopia is one of those many things. With just these two examples it shows that you are not going to be able to survive a “perfect” nation it people who are the opposite of perfect. The attempts those people made were more like ways to get equal power to a dictator. The one said they wanted everyone to share everything, sounds to me like a communist nation. People outside and maybe inside probably thought the leaders were messed up. Christian then and now would know we can’t have a perfect nation because of sin nature. The earth was originally a utopia. It was perfect in every way until Adam and Eve sinned. Reading about those two societies makes me laugh. The people were so weird. Some of the rules they had didn’t matter to make the utopias perfect. The leaders wanted to make rules people had to obey or they would be punished.(172)
ReplyDeleteThese two so called utopias were very similar. The both thought that every one was equal. In both communities owning private property was illegal. They both used Acts 2:44-45 as a biblical example for their communistic lifestyles. But the both were mislead by the verse because there sharing was a choice not the law. The second utopia view of marriage was very interesting to me. They want to be perfect but they are all adulterers. Utopias will never be possible on planet earth because our world is sinful. There will only be one utopia and it won’t be on this earth it will be in heaven.(106)
ReplyDeleteThere is no possible way to ever make a Utopia. They always start with good intentions, but they never work out in the end. The New Harmony society was just weird to begin with. He would fine the people, give them curfews, and he would have house inspections for every person. The other one just really confused me. I wasn't really sure what half of it meant, but the whole everyone is married to everyone thing freaked me out. The mutual criticism part was pretty sad. They all basically made fun of each others flaws in groups. The New Harmony was a Utopia the Oneida was a man trying to create his own religion. (122)
ReplyDeleteI think that if both colonies were established at the same time, the one in New Harmony, PA would have lasted longer. They were striving for perfect education, as the other one was just going for perfection in life and relationships. It was a little ridiculous though in New Harmony, when it talked about children being removed from their homes so that they wouldn’t be influenced in the wrong way by their parents or siblings. The children belong to their families, so the leaders of the utopia had no right to take them away from their homes. I think that since the country was going through so many changes during that era, it wasn’t really that big of a problem at that time. Nowadays, it would have been much tougher to keep something like that going. I understand completely why neither of these utopias made it through as stable colonies. Both the Bible and Hannah Montana clearly say, “Nobody’s Perfect.” Obviously, they should have listened. (165)
ReplyDeleteFirst off I wanted to say it is impossible to make a utopia community because of two reasons I can think of. One is that humans sin nature will make everyone have immoral thoughts and actions. Second, the power of the leader of the community will corrupt him/her. So the leader will be full of corruption which will make any civilization fail. Back to the questions. New Harmony and Onidea have a few things common, and a few different. One thing in common is both were trying to be utopian communities (DUHH). Secondly, both of them wanted what was good and moral for their communities, but the both failed. Honestly that and both of their creator’s/leader’s last names have and ‘O’, ‘E’, and a ‘N’. Which also means they have many differences. One is that New Harmony was not based on religious foundations because Owen thought that made a community conflict while in Onidea it was based on a religion called Perfectionism which was that you have to be perfect and act perfect to get into heaven. While Onidea believed in complex marriage, New Harmony did not. OH here is another similarity: They both were criticized for being immoral. That’s all I got! (203)
ReplyDeleteObviously, the answer to your question is no, utopias are not achievable. For example, New Harmony and Oneida. I always thought that a utopia was something that slowly formed as a leader grew power hungry and turned into a dictator. It was interesting though that neither of these started like that. I guess you could call the men that started it all a dictator, but I think they more just wanted a better life for themselves and the people to come. Obviously, there are differences in how these two men sought perfection. New Harmony to be a strict rule abiding, good deeds, and excellent educational town. Oneida to be perfect by "unity". To be honest this guy was a little messed up in the head. I guess anyone who thought they could start a perfect society was though. I think these societies back then and now would be looked upon as crazy. Maybe not as much back then because many other people were building new towns, but especially now. We know now that, As long as there is sin in the world, nothing, NOTHING will ever be perfect. Just like God said. If God was sarcastic, I think he would say "I told you so. I told you it wouldn't work." (211)
ReplyDeleteThe two utopias that we had to read this week had interesting beliefs and ways of living. They are both similar because they both were started by a guy who thought that they could make a better and safer place here on earth. They were both also criticized for it. The New Harmony utopia was based on the rational ethics and there was no religion. They even tried to change the ways of education. Many parents were not so happy about this. The other utopia was Oneida. Oneida said that everyone was married to everyone. Now that is a little strange. They also twisted bible verses to show the people that they were doing the right things. Both of these utopias of course came to an end, because no one can have a perfect society and God really was not in their life. If these utopias were here today, many people would join and then realize that it was not perfect. Out of these two utopias, I think that Oneida would have lasted longer. (176)
ReplyDeleteI think that those people were crazy: the leaders of the utopias AND the people that tried to live in them. Both of the utopias were formed with the hope of making a perfect place shielded from the trials and hardships of the world. New Harmony focused on laws and education mostly. If New Harmony were here today I don’t think anyone would want to go there, especially if there were kids in the family because you wouldn’t get to see them. People today don’t like laws and being restricted. Oneida on the other hand was pretty sick. Everyone was married to everyone and it was legal. Honestly, I think that Oneida would last longer. Today, morals have diminished and almost anything and everything goes. Being able to have relationships with multiple people would be a dream come true for some. I think that the utopias would have negative receptions today, but I’m sure some people would be so naïve and clueless and give it a try as they did years ago. Obviously a utopia will never survive until one is created by God. {184}
ReplyDelete~Mo~
I think that neither of them are equipped to last very long, but if I had to choose I think that New Harmony is slightly more morally acceptable. Considering that their teachings were unlike any before them, they weren't received well by their surroundings at the time. Our country is definitely not anywhere near perfect, but I doubt that these teachings would be accepted today. Oneida gives new meaning to the term polygamy, and as selfish as people are I doubt that they would want to share all property as is the custom in New Harmony. Due to this fact, I do not think that they would be accepted today. Also, as Mo pointed out a utopia will never survive in this world because of our sin nature.
ReplyDelete[132]