One of the motivations for all this European exploration was competition between rival countries. Generally speaking, there were two major rivalries at this time: Spain vs. Portugal + England vs. France. In the case of Spain and Portugal, both Catholic countries called on the Pope (leader of the Roman Catholic Church) to settle a dispute about which part of the world each country now "owned the right to explore".
In the 1490s, Pope Alexander VI decided to draw an imaginary line down the Atlantic Ocean. Spain was then "given the right" to explore any lands west of this line and Portugal "got" anything east. For the comments this week, read these three articles (1, 2 and 3). Do you think the Pope's decision was wise? What might have been an alternate solution? Also, did the Pope really have the authority to make this decision?
I don't think the Pope had authority to make this decision. First, how is he supposed to make sure they only explore their side? He cant patrol it all. also, how can he tell other nations what they must do? well, the Catholics obeyed him obviously, but other religions? Everyone did obey, well mostly. The Spaniards obeyed, but the Portuguese would later request of Spain that they move the line, and they did. Spain had mainly stayed to the middle or south parts of the land to explore, while Portugal went along Africa, but later weren't exploring at all, when Russia, Britain, and France came and explored (107).
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion the decision the Pope made was wise. It was also fair because both sides agreed to it after it was altered a bit in the Treaty of Tordesillas. Everyone agreed to it making it fair and a wise move. Honestly I don't believe there was a very good alternative. I mean sure people could've just fought for the land. Except that would ruin land, kill people, and just been another war. Whereas this treaty, in their opinion was fair. Except it messed up everyone who lived in the Americas. Of course they were just like everyone else. They had jobs, places to go, people to see. Oh sure they might not have been you're typical group of people, but to them this was life. So the Pope thinking he had the power to make such a huge and life changing (for the Native Americans) decision was pretty crazy. The people under the Catholic Church would have thought so, but really I think they were all just power hungry and didn't want to think how they would alter the lives of those in the Americas and the future generations.
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I think the Pope was not the right person to determine the Line of Demarcation. Because Spain and Portugal were both Catholic they let him decide. But he didn't know correct longitude or latitude . And another reason why is because he was from Spain so I believe that gave Spain an advantage on where the line was placed. His decision was wise for the resources he was using. But I think the mapmakers should have made it because they knew more about the maps than he did. Whether or not he had the authority to make this decision could be argued both ways. The way he did have authority was because he was in charge of most things because he was the Pope. And a way he didn't was because he was from Spain. An alternate solution would be for the mapmakers to come up with different places to put the line and then the Pope decide on the final one. (162)
ReplyDeleteI say the pope didn’t have the right to do this. Just because both places were catholic doesn’t mean that the pope can divide the whole world up into two places. First of all the popes longitude and latitude was wrong, and second of all what about all the people who already lived on the land. They can’t just take away people’s homes. And another thing is that they didn’t even know how much land was east of the line they were making or west of it, what if one side had more than the other imagine how big of a war that would cause. The alterative way in my opinion is that if they find land but there are people still living they have to give the people living there an option to became part of their country’s land.(140)
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Pope Alexander VI made a pretty wise decision. First, he divided the land and gave it to Spain and Portugal. But also, in some cases, he made a not so wise decision. He thought he could keep the peace between Spain and Portugal, yet it made things worse. Portugal wanted more land, so an alternate solution might have been to split it even and even, or just not have split it. Although, I don’t even think he had the authority to be able to split the new world. He should have at least talked it over with someone and seen their thoughts about it. So, what Pope Alexander was trying to do was helpful, but was not fair at the same time. (125)
ReplyDeleteI don’t think the Pope had the right to make this decision. The reason why is because even have the correct longitude and latitude of America. Of course they let him because Spain and Portugal were both Catholic countries. He is also from Spain so that gave Spain an advantage for more land than Portugal. Portugal got angry, King John II negotiated with King Ferdinand Queen Isabella of Spain to move the line more to the west. Now the line extends all around thus limiting Spanish influence in Asia. My opinion for an alternative solution would be to share the land together so there would be known arguments. (109)
ReplyDeleteThis is a very debatable topic because of its two different perspectives. Let’s take it part by part. Spain and Portugal were both Catholic countries {as were most countries back then}. If they trusted anyone to make a wise decision, it was definitely the Pope. So in this case, he did have the authority to determine the amount of land each country received. Was it a good one? Obviously not because Portugal said it was unfair to them. So later the compromise was made between the two countries to ensure that Portugal didn’t feel like they were on the lower-end-of-the-bargain.
ReplyDeleteBut there could have been an alternative solution. War. Take the land by pure force, which in my opinion is sometimes the best way. Why? Because domination can only happen when you’re on the offensive. Portugal was on the defensive side because Pope Alexander VI was from Spain! So it was going to be unfair—due to the fact that the Pope wanted his home country to get the most land—and not a truly wise decision. The concept of determining the land, though, was good; it was how it was put into place that became a problem. If the decision the Pope made had been wise, then there should not have been a treaty.
If you ask me, you got to take matters into your own hands when it comes to these situations. First come, first served. Spain was the “first” because of the Pope’s home land. Portugal lacked that advantage. So the decision was unfair, and the Pope didn’t have the authority—in this case—to make the decision.
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The pope had some what of the right to draw this line. But according to the Catholic Church he could do anything that he wanted and no one could challenge it. But when he drew that imaginary line he started a whole bunch of arguments, fights, and wars. But I personally think that he should not have drawn that line especially because of his biased opinion. He was biased because he is a Spaniard and the west was a lot of land and he probably knew that. So he gave the west to Spain and the rest of the lane that has already been explored to Portugal. He gave Spain all of that land so that his country could have power. The fact of the matter was that Spain and Portugal are rivals and when that line was drawn he made that rivalry grow by ten times. He had no right to draw that line. He wanted to let Spain have the upper hand in the exploration race. So my personal opinion is that he should not have drawn that line at all.
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The decision made by the Pope was unfair because he was actually a Spaniard. Then again both sides agreed to the decision made by the Pope. Spain actually, even with the larger end of the portion, said that they were cheated because all that their portion yielded them was disease and discomfort. With Portugal’s side, the Aztecs had much wealth and Portugal conquered them. The treaty of Tordesillas was not a wise decision because nobody at that time knew of all the lands in North and South America. This treaty also didn’t leave room for other countries, which paved the way for future conflicts. All in all, this treaty was unfair to more than two countries in more than two ways. (122)
ReplyDeleteI don’t think that the Pope was obligated to make this decision. One reason is he didn’t even know what was out there, and because he didn’t he made the wrong choice. When they came to him to make a decision they wanted him to make it as fair as possible, which he tried to do it just didn’t work out because of the lack of accuracy to the maps this was very hard to do. It was such a bad deal for Spain they had to go negotiate with the Spaniards to get a batter and more fair deal. This is why I think that the Pope wasn’t obligated to make the decision.
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Given the circumstances the pope allowed both countries to explore new lands. The decision to have each country going different direction kept them from having possible war. The Pope did not have the authority to make that decision because they really don't have power over Spain and Portugal together well they kind of do, but if Spain and Portugal just stood together then they could take the Pope and not have to follow what they said. I still do think though that the Pope made the right decision because I mean they really could have gone to war and what if they went to war on the new world then I would have been rewind.(115)
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